Curse

Asrial · Jun 21, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonJLore

*chuckles* Considering the fact that the average IQ of the person who posts on these forums may or may not amount to 120, I find your statement curious. I am unconvinced that the majority of posters have a college degree. Therefore, what is your point? Should we pontificate here while using the King's English or try relating to the majority in an unbiased manner?

Along with what arnansnow said...

I want to debate with people who have valid and well thought out ideas and such.

Not someone who's vocabulary consists of "they suck just because I don't know how to play them" or someone too lazy to show a higher level of maturity.

Yes I understand that there's a low level of education on the internet, but I choose to associate myself with those that possess one on par with me.

The post of yours that I quoted is what I'm looking for

Asrial · Jun 21, 2005, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

However, have you ever heard people saying they got owned by a pet in HoH or GvG?

No. Lately I just hear about people getting owned by 5 air elementalists and 3 monks.

Wizard_TPG · Jun 21, 2005, 12:51 AM // 00:51

I use a ranger/mesmer in PvP and, I believe, it is quite a useful character.

Skills I use:
Hunters Shot
Lightning Reflexes
Conjure Phantasm
Whirling Defense
Sig of Resurrect
Apply Poison
Frozen Soil
Charm Animal - Lev 20 bear

I find this gives me a good mix of defensive and offensive skills and a pet that can take a lot of damage. I can use frozen soil to prevent resurrects as well which helps.
I generally target multiple monks, poisoning each and then concentrate on one with lightning reflexes and conjure phantasm to drop him.

I find a ranger is a great support character but you cannot go 1 on 1 against other characters easily.

provoko · Jun 21, 2005, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

At 60 AL pets aren't going to last very long, and no monk will heal a pet when there are better candidates for saving.

Edit: Pets also suffer from the same drawbacks of warriors. They are too easily taken out just from a couple conditions or hexes. Unlike Warriors, they also die much faster due to their low armor rating. Also, W/Ne can plague touch conditions away, or rend enemy enchantments as a prep for focused fire. Hammer attacks can consistanly interrupt enemy monks and w/Es can follow up with a devastating aftershock.

For pets to be usable, you'd need charm animal, comfort animal, the protection spell, the attack speed boosting spell, and 1-2 attack spells. That leaves you with 2-3 slots for your main ranger, and if they blind/slow/etc your pet, that just pretty much turns the majority of your skill bar into blanks.

They could be good in very limited PvPing, such as random arenas or maybe even arranged 4v4. However, have you ever heard people saying they got owned by a pet in HoH or GvG?

Whats your point? Who told you you need the pet to stay alive in PVP?

*The pet does not need protection in PVP.*

If someone decides to attack the pet, they're not attacking you, if they attack you, your pet attacks them. In either situation you're coming out on top. If you need clarification, read my reply above.

PVE is a different story.

Eclair · Jun 21, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by provoko

Whats your point? Who told you you need the pet to stay alive in PVP?

*The pet does not need protection in PVP.*

If someone decides to attack the pet, they're not attacking you, if they attack you, your pet attacks them. In either situation you're coming out on top. If you need clarification, read my reply above.

PVE is a different story.

If your pet dies you have your skills disabled for 8 seconds (I heard some people say its 4 seconds since the last patch, but no confirmation on that yet). 8 seconds without skills is a burden to your team. You can bet experienced players will take advantage of that.

Flame · Jun 21, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4nowar

pets can bleed, cripple, knock down... what else does that? a warrior? warriors have sprint... pets have call of haste.

Hunter's Shot, Pin Down, Spike Trap. What has that? Oh right, Rangers. There is no need for a pet.

Now it's time for math. 8 Skill Slots - 1 Skill Slot = 7 Skill Slots. 8 Team members + 1 Monk with a pet - 1 Pet = Disabled Monk skills = 8 Dead team members.

The only class that can really use pets without being screwed over is Rangers, and they can do anything their pet can anyway.

Algren Cole · Jun 21, 2005, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

Yeah, you're right...

...Any ranger with a pet, period, is an idiot.

You Are STOOPID

wgregory87 · Jun 21, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

Yeah, you're right...

...Any ranger with a pet, period, is an idiot.

Hahahhaa word. Its not that they're bad... well they are... but there are so many other skills that are so much more useful. Don't forget that once your pet dies you cant use any of your other skills for as long as it takes to kill you. Want to bring healing for your pet? Theres another spot wasted that you could have a trap or arrow / effect skill. Want to make your pet useful? (pet attacks). There are more skill spots taken up that once again could be outdone by basically any other skill. Its just a poor choice. More of a choice for someone who likes the look and idea of having a pet.

Algren Cole · Jun 21, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by wgregory87

Don't forget that once your pet dies you cant use any of your other skills for as long as it takes to kill you.

does it change from PvE to PvP....or do you just know nothing about the game, yet felt the need to comment regardless?

Eclair · Jun 21, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

does it change from PvE to PvP....or do you just know nothing about the game, yet felt the need to comment regardless?

Last I checked all your skills are disabled for 8 seconds when your pet dies. 8 seconds is enough to kill someone who can't do jack. Although I've heard people say its 4 seconds since the last patch, so that is a bit better, but it still doesn't change the fact that anything your pet can do you can do better by using non pet skills.

provoko · Jun 21, 2005, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

If your pet dies you have your skills disabled for 8 seconds (I heard some people say its 4 seconds since the last patch, but no confirmation on that yet). 8 seconds without skills is a burden to your team. You can bet experienced players will take advantage of that.

Alright, stop commenting unless you have actually used a pet build. Or actually read what I wrote above.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=29

In almost every PVP battle I've been in my pet doesn't die because people totally ignore it and wonder why their skills are always disabled and are bleeding. In the PVP battles where my pet does die, the skills disabled has never been a burden on me or my team and its always been worth it because, like I said before, if they're attacking my pet, they're not attacking me or my team mates and that gives us a great advantage than any small time disable.

You're not experienced with pets, so all of your comments and opinions on pets are worthless, sorry, but if you backed up for a second and looked at pets and played them then you would know. It's the same noobish crap as "Necro primary sucks because soul reaping is useless." Whats wrong with that comment? Lets see, the person is completely ignorant to how the game works and is CONDEMNING an entire class because of one attribute but doesn't realize the advantages of a primary build with runes.

You're basically condemning a pet because of one side effect (which if you would have read anything of what I wrote above doesn't matter). YET you've completely ignored it's strengths AND you have NO EXPERIENCE using pets to even know what they can do for you.

This goes for everyone, not just Eclair, stop making your noobish comments on pets in this thread. Read this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=29
And this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=20579

Quote:

Hunter's Shot, Pin Down, Spike Trap. What has that? Oh right, Rangers. There is no need for a pet.

Quote:

but it still doesn't change the fact that anything your pet can do you can do better by using non pet skills.

Take a look at this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill.php

Notice every pet attack is better than than a non-pet ranger attack. I don't have to point it out cause it's obvious, less cool down, less mana, and more damage and the attacks are dead on especially using call of haste. I'm not saying you should throw away your ranger skills, but you should know what you're talking about before saying something untrue.

But thats not even the point, think about stacking them, do you realize how powerful carrying Distracting Shot AND Disrupting Lunge is. Did everyone skip over Ferocious Strike?

Look, you got a right to your own opinion, but stop spewing out uninformed ignorant noobish crap. You guys started off like that so I tried to explain the advantages of pets, BUT you guys kept getting more ignorant and replies even more noobish. So sorry if I come off mean, but you people don't read, research anything, or have even tried what you're criticizing.

You go to a doctor cause they know medicine, don't try to preach medicine when you're not a doctor. Ask the people that have used pets or use them your self before you say they suck. And if you have used them and say they suck, you most likely did something wrong.

derrtyboy69 · Jun 21, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle26

any ranger with a pet in PVP is a nub.

let me correct you: any noob with a pet in PVP sucks hard. this is why people are so reluctant to allow rangers in PVP groups, its because there are MANY people who dont know how to use them

wgregory87 · Jun 21, 2005, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by provoko

In almost every PVP battle I've been in my pet doesn't die because people totally ignore it and wonder why their skills are always disabled and are bleeding.

You can't count on the oppositions stupidity to validate your point. Pets are going to die more easily than a player controller unit. You cant control the way a pet moves. So if you think your pet ranger is better than a player controller ranger.. well that IS your own opinion but what are rangers for in PvP? A good majority of their role is to interrupt the casters and any threats on the opposition side. Yes there are pet interrupts but you're not going to be able to get them off on different players spread throughout the battlefield in time. So yeah, chase away at that monk or elementalist with your pet but the response switch time is slow which, in a heated battle, means the world. And if your pet does die, you've just been lucky that your team has been supporting you and you dont need your skills. We can read the stats of the pet attacks on the website, you don't need to point these out. The fact is that stats mean very little when it comes to what you sacrifice.

Asrial · Jun 21, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

It's a losing battle. Everyone on the internet is expert on things they haven't tried doing

ratatass · Jun 21, 2005, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Rangers In PvP.

Yes they can be fantastic in some instances, but usually only in a planned function. They don't glide in as seamless as the Warrio/Monk or Monk in PUGS.

Zeee Pets - The Ranger/Mesmer

It is very hard to justify a pet in PvP. After the upgrades to the pets I started looking into it just to rule out the option.

All pets are the same in damage output and hitpoints, except the spider, which has a slightly higher critical and therefore average dps.

1) The dps of your pet not counting your attack skills are proven to be 10.6 dps.

2) The dps with a pet with Call of Haste is roughly 14.3 dps.

3) Bleeding 6 dps

4) Poison 8 dps (Somebody mentioned they used posion arrows or apply poison)

So not counting your bow attack, you possible with Call of Haste and Bleeding + Poison end up at:
28 DPS

Is that bad ? If your target is not healing itself, it will die roughly after 18 seconds - not counting bow attacks.

Now add in you Bow attacks on a 60 AL, probably end up at 15 dps, since you can only have one prep and one attack, since pet is taking a lot of slots.

So total is about:

43 DPS

Well if you change targets after you have achieved bleeding, cripple, posion, then you could be helpful in straining the monks, but you definetly are not killing somebody. Monks can take care of this slow damage output...

If your team build is about draining the other team down with conditions, sure bleeding, cripple, poison(you) and rapidly swithing targets your pet will have some value.

Maybe if you add Fragility to your build or backfire, maybe Tigers Fury, Barrage, Zealous bowstring ?

I am not saying a pet in PvP is bad , it sure can have some advantages, especially cripple as a snare, but it does take up a lot of slots.

A ranger can serve a lot of other purposes, a warrior hits on avarage 25 dps or more (if buffed) on target before his attacks. An Elementalist can spike enormous damage in a few seconds as well.

I think your stuff will work in a team build, but in a PUG - you are doomed.

Ratatass

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 02, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Provoko: been away from the thread for a while, but I use a W/R simply for the better armor when I need to go to melee combat - it keeps me alive longer.

For all those others who think pets are useless - you really don't know how to play an RPG, then do you? Pets come in handy if for nothing else, then to create disruption amonst the enemy and force their healers to do more work as there are more characters doing damage to their party than just the four PC's you go in with.

Plus, pet AI is only going to get better as Guild Wars matures. FYI, I have never been in a party that has lost a PvP battle with three or four pets included. I haven't done much PvPing, but I would say that has been pretty good. The two groups I was with ended up just having to leave the game because we had been playing so long, we had to get to "real world" business.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

DarX · Jul 02, 2005, 07:01 PM // 19:01

they are quite useful as most people in your group are probably a Warrior anyway

Paine · Jul 02, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Never!

Curby · Jul 02, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle26

lol ok fight my warrior with ur pet and see what happens lol.. first of all it wont hurt me.. maybe 1-3 dmg thats about it.. lol.. then ill just sprint and take u out

Id love to fight you as you sound like the most incompitent person on the planet. I mean i don't use pets as i specilise in long range damage and maiming but i have friends with another power in the pet to take down any no0b like you. 1-3 dmg where did you fight that, the 'Ascalon Arena'?

Squallox · Jul 02, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Rangers and very good in PvP when played well. If played badly they are the worst class in the game. Same with Mesmers.

Jun 21, 2005, 12:51 AM // 00:51	#43
Wizard_TPG Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Australian Vengeance Alliance Profession: R/Me	I use a ranger/mesmer in PvP and, I believe, it is quite a useful character. Skills I use: Hunters Shot Lightning Reflexes Conjure Phantasm Whirling Defense Sig of Resurrect Apply Poison Frozen Soil Charm Animal - Lev 20 bear I find this gives me a good mix of defensive and offensive skills and a pet that can take a lot of damage. I can use frozen soil to prevent resurrects as well which helps. I generally target multiple monks, poisoning each and then concentrate on one with lightning reflexes and conjure phantasm to drop him. I find a ranger is a great support character but you cannot go 1 on 1 against other characters easily.

Jun 21, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24	#54
Asrial Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2005 Guild: Centurion Guard Profession: Mo/E	It's a losing battle. Everyone on the internet is expert on things they haven't tried doing

Jun 21, 2005, 05:33 AM // 05:33	#55
ratatass Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New Mexico	Rangers In PvP. Yes they can be fantastic in some instances, but usually only in a planned function. They don't glide in as seamless as the Warrio/Monk or Monk in PUGS. Zeee Pets - The Ranger/Mesmer It is very hard to justify a pet in PvP. After the upgrades to the pets I started looking into it just to rule out the option. All pets are the same in damage output and hitpoints, except the spider, which has a slightly higher critical and therefore average dps. 1) The dps of your pet not counting your attack skills are proven to be 10.6 dps. 2) The dps with a pet with Call of Haste is roughly 14.3 dps. 3) Bleeding 6 dps 4) Poison 8 dps (Somebody mentioned they used posion arrows or apply poison) So not counting your bow attack, you possible with Call of Haste and Bleeding + Poison end up at: 28 DPS Is that bad ? If your target is not healing itself, it will die roughly after 18 seconds - not counting bow attacks. Now add in you Bow attacks on a 60 AL, probably end up at 15 dps, since you can only have one prep and one attack, since pet is taking a lot of slots. So total is about: 43 DPS Well if you change targets after you have achieved bleeding, cripple, posion, then you could be helpful in straining the monks, but you definetly are not killing somebody. Monks can take care of this slow damage output... If your team build is about draining the other team down with conditions, sure bleeding, cripple, poison(you) and rapidly swithing targets your pet will have some value. Maybe if you add Fragility to your build or backfire, maybe Tigers Fury, Barrage, Zealous bowstring ? I am not saying a pet in PvP is bad , it sure can have some advantages, especially cripple as a snare, but it does take up a lot of slots. A ranger can serve a lot of other purposes, a warrior hits on avarage 25 dps or more (if buffed) on target before his attacks. An Elementalist can spike enormous damage in a few seconds as well. I think your stuff will work in a team build, but in a PUG - you are doomed. Ratatass

Jul 02, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00	#56
Hanok Odbrook Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2005 Location: Tyria Guild: Real Millennium Group Profession: Mo/N	Provoko: been away from the thread for a while, but I use a W/R simply for the better armor when I need to go to melee combat - it keeps me alive longer. For all those others who think pets are useless - you really don't know how to play an RPG, then do you? Pets come in handy if for nothing else, then to create disruption amonst the enemy and force their healers to do more work as there are more characters doing damage to their party than just the four PC's you go in with. Plus, pet AI is only going to get better as Guild Wars matures. FYI, I have never been in a party that has lost a PvP battle with three or four pets included. I haven't done much PvPing, but I would say that has been pretty good. The two groups I was with ended up just having to leave the game because we had been playing so long, we had to get to "real world" business. Hanok Odbrook Real Millennium Group Guild http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Jul 02, 2005, 07:01 PM // 19:01	#57
DarX Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Dark Phantoms [DPG] Profession: W/Mo	they are quite useful as most people in your group are probably a Warrior anyway

Jul 02, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57	#58
Paine Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Clan Plus [Plus]	Never!

Jul 02, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45	#60
Squallox Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2005	Rangers and very good in PvP when played well. If played badly they are the worst class in the game. Same with Mesmers.